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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » What did Joseph Rutherford gain for JW's by writting a letter to the Nazi regime, saying good things about it and praising its goals?

What did Joseph Rutherford gain for JW's by writting a letter to the Nazi regime, saying good things about it and praising its goals?

Highlights from the letter written by Rutherford (President of Watchtower) to Reichskanzler (Reich Chanceller).

"The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda and for that reason were prohibited and suppressed in America during the war.

In the very same manner, in course of the recent months the board of directors of our Society not only refused to engage in propaganda against Germany, but has even taken a position against it. The enclosed declaration underlines this fact and emphasizes that the people leading in such propaganda (Jewish businessmen and catholics) also are the most rigorous persecutors of the work of our Society and ist board of directors.

"We demand the freedom of all religious denominations within the state (Germany), as far as they do not endanger the state itself or violate the moral values of the German race.

The party as such represents the viewpoint of positive Christianity without being attached to any particular denomination. It fights against the Jewish-materialistic spirit inside and outside of us and is convinced that any recovery of the German people can only take place from the inside out."

Posted - August 5, 2017

Responses


  • 46117
    Really?   We care?

    Okay, I guess. 

    Let's find another grudge to harbor besides attacking JW's all the time.  At least attack all the religions.  How about that Scientology for awhile.  Give the Witnesses a break for godssake.  Many are good folk. 

    Now those Scientologists?  They are clueless bastids.



    This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at August 5, 2017 4:54 PM MDT
      August 5, 2017 4:23 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Typical strawman diversion. 
    Go ahead and find another grudge without me.
    I'm not attacking JW's, I'm looking for answers. I think the world would be better off without man made organized religions with all the hocus pocus in their holy books. How's that for attacking all the religions?
    I have a question. Answer it or continue on with your journey and look for someone else to attack.
    What's a bastid? This post was edited by antibiotic at August 5, 2017 5:50 PM MDT
      August 5, 2017 5:49 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    What does that mean.  Why would you use strawman to define my behavior.  You don't even know the meaning of the word.  GOD. 

    Read a book. 
      August 5, 2017 5:52 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Read a book. Yeap, another genuine example of poor mental agility and lack of cerebral alertness.
      August 5, 2017 6:05 PM MDT
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  • 591
    A piece of ass kissing in order to get back property and assets that the government had taken. You must remember that Hitler was a RC and an ally of the pope who has never agreed with any other religion. I suspect that you may see a similar letter to Putin and the 
    Kremlin now that they have been outlawed in Russia.
      August 6, 2017 12:00 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    Due to falsehoods by the Churches accusing JW's of being politically opponents of Hitler, there was a letter (or letters?) written showing the JW's are not political in nature. Similar to how JW's have recently written letters to Russia. 
    As far as anything gained for JW's, the brutality inflicted on the JW's (Bible students) by Hitler is well documented by historians.


    In the early 1930's, at the time of the letter, some of Hitler's stated goals were not a sinister as they later came out. If Hitler would have right off the bat stated all of his goals as gradually revealed, I don't think he could have received the support of the Churches as he eventually did.

     Martin Niemoller initially a supporter of Hitler's rise to power, wrote the famous "first they came" poems, in which he kinda showed the gradualism with which he duped the Churches into accepting and participation in whole scale slaughter of innocents.


    https://www.muruch.com/2016/11/poetry-niemoller.html

    “First They Came…” by Martin Niemöller

    First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Communist.

    Then they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the incurably sick, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a incurably sick.

    Then they came for the schools and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a school.

    Then they came for the press and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not the press.

    Then they came for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for the people in countries occupied by Nazi Germany, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not in countries occupied by Nazi Germany.

    Then they came for me—
    and there was no one left to speak for me.



    https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1933-1938

    https://remember.org/shoah/timeline.html

    https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/people/jwtimeln.htm

    Jehovah's Witnesses in the Holocaust

    Chronology of events 1933-1945

    1933 - About 25,000 Jehovah's Witnesses are active in Germany. March, first concentration camp, Dachau, established. April 1, all religious literature printed by Jehovah's Witnesses is banned from circulation in Germany. In June, Prussian State Police ban the work and organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some Witnesses sentenced to terms in labor and concentration camps. Watch Tower office in Magdeburg raided and closed. August 16, first mention of existence of concentration camps in the Golden Age magazine (now Awake!), published internationally by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    1934 - October 7, telegrams of protest sent to Hitler by Jehovah's Witnesses in 50 countries, including Germany.

    1935 - April 1, Jehovah's Witnesses banned from all civil service jobs and arrested throughout Germany. Pension and employment benefits confiscated. Marriage to one of Jehovah's Witnesses becomes legal grounds for divorce. Children of Jehovah's Witnesses banned from attending school. Some children taken from parents to be raised in Nazi homes and reform schools.

    1936 - Mass arrests of Jehovah's Witnesses. Several thousand are sent to concentration camps and some remain there until 1945. December 12, Jehovah's Witnesses throughout Germany secretly distribute 200,000 copies of the Lucerne Resolution, a protest of Nazi atrocities, in one hour.

    1937 - Buchenwald concentration camp established. Here is first known use of the purple triangle as a symbol for camp inmates who are Jehovah's Witnesses. April 22, Gestapo order directs that all of Jehovah's Witnesses released from prison be taken directly to concentration camps. June 20, Jehovah's Witnesses throughout Germany secretly distribute the "Open Letter," which supplies detailed accounts of Nazi atrocities.

    1938 - October 2, Watch Tower Society President J. F. Rutherford, speaking over a network of 60 radio stations, denounces Nazi persecution of the Jews. November 9 and 10, Jews experience a nationwide attack in a pogrom called Krystallnacht (Night of Broken Glass). About 25,000 Jewish men deported to concentration camps. On November 15, all Jewish children expelled from school.

    1939 - September 15, August Dickman, one of Jehovah's Witnesses and the first conscientious objector of the war to be executed, dies by firing squad at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

    1942 - January 20, Wannsee Conference of Nazi officials formalizes plans for the so-called Final Solution, the extermination of European Jewry.

    1945 - May 7, Germany surrenders and the war in Europe ends. The Nuremberg war crimes trials begin in November. September 30, verdicts of the war crimes trials announced in Nuremberg on the same day that Jehovah's Witnesses hold public convention at the Zeppelinwiese, formerly used for Nazi Party rallies.


     


    Part of an Awake article from 1998:
    [Looking Back
    Jehovah’s Witnesses have been active in Germany for more than 100 years. By 1933, there were about 25,000 Witnesses worshiping Jehovah God and distributing Bible literature throughout Germany.
    Despite the freedoms granted by the German constitution of that time, Jehovah’s Witnesses were frequently the target of defamation campaigns, launched primarily by religious opponents. As early as 1921, the Witnesses, then called Ernste Bibelforscher (Earnest Bible Students), were accused of being linked with the Jews in subversive political movements. The Bible Students were branded as the dangerous Bolshevik “Jewish worm,” though no proof of the charges was ever produced. Swiss theologian Karl Barth later wrote: “The accusation that Jehovah’s Witnesses are linked with the Communists can only be due to an involuntary or even intentional misunderstanding.”
    A church magazine in Germany charged that the Witnesses and the Jews were coconspirators in revolutionary movements. In response, the April 15, 1930, German edition of The Golden Age (forerunner of Awake!) stated: “We have no reason to regard this false accusation as an insult—as we are convinced that the Jew is at least as valuable a person as a nominal Christian; but we reject the above untruth of the church tabloid because it is aimed at deprecating our work, as if it were being done not for the sake of the Gospel but for the Jews.”
    Thus, professor of history John Weiss wrote: “The Witnesses were free of German racial nationalism and had not brooded for centuries over the failure of the Jews to convert. The Witnesses still held to the original, if patronizing, Christian belief of the need to persuade all potential converts to Christ.”
    What Happened When Hitler Came to Power?
    On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was appointed Germany’s new chancellor. In the beginning, the Hitler government worked to conceal its violent and extremist nature. Hence, the Witnesses, along with millions of other Germans in early 1933, viewed the National Socialist Party as the legitimate ruling authority of the time. The Witnesses hoped that the National Socialist (Nazi) government would realize that this peaceable, law-abiding Christian group posed no subversive threat to the State. This was no offer to compromise Bible principles. As has been the case in other lands, the Witnesses wanted to inform the government of the true nonpolitical nature of their religion.
    It quickly became apparent that Jehovah’s Witnesses were to be among the first targets of brutal Nazi suppression. The Witnesses were again branded as accomplices in an alleged Bolshevik-Jewish conspiracy. A campaign of persecution began.]
      August 7, 2017 8:44 AM MDT
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  • 492
    In the letter, Rutherford claims the board of directors of the Society took a position against any propaganda against Nazi Germany. They not only refused to engage, they took position against it.

    He was concerned about violating the moral values of the German state, who were Nazis. Nazis having moral values?

    He claims to have a fight against the Jewish-materialistic spirit inside and outside ... .

    In the actual letter, he goes on to say that the Society is in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich.

    This letter written by Joseph Rutherford (president of WTBT) has nothing to do with any falsehoods by any Churches accusing JW's of being politically opponents of Hitler. I believe JW's are not political in nature, but this letter shows some political correctness and mildly polished approval of the actions taken by the Nazis. I can give you a copy of the actual letter written in German.

    "In the early 1930's, at the time of the letter, some of Hitler's stated goals were not a sinister as they later came out. "
    I guess you can also say, in the early 1930's, at the time that the pictures you have of clergy with their right arms up in salute, some of Hitler's stated goals were not as sinister as they later came out. The last 2 photos you posted on another thread were dated early 1930's. Do you have any dated in the 1940's? This post was edited by antibiotic at August 7, 2017 6:47 PM MDT
      August 7, 2017 6:29 PM MDT
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  • 2657



    Thank you for your biased and slanted opinion. 

    Quote from you: [In the actual letter, he goes on to say that the Society is in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich.]

    Partial quote from an English translation: [..."The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence
    in the political affairs of the nation. Such is exactly our position;...]

    Did you notice that the letter stated what they were referring to?



    Funny how opposers try to make it like JW's supported Hitler. If that was true, why did Hitler try to cut off the hand that fed him?

    “The record of the Vatican in relationship to the Holocaust is one of the great moral failures in history—one from which the Catholic Church itself has yet to recover,” writes
    columnist James Carroll in The Boston Globe. To back up his point, he lists the following historical data: “1929—The Lateran Pacts between Mussolini and Pius XI give the Vatican
    freedom and money, and they give needed prestige to Mussolini. [1933]—The Vatican signs a Concordat with Hitler, his first international success. . . . 1935—Mussolini invades
    Abyssinia. Catholic bishops bless Italian troops . . . 1939—Mussolini decrees an end to the rights of Jews in Italy. The pope says nothing. . . . 1942—The pope receives reports
    from Italian army chaplains about the extermination of the Jews. In his Christmas message, he bemoans the fate of ‘unfortunate people’ killed because of their race, but he does
    not mention Hitler, Germany or the death camps. Once again, the word ‘Jew’ is not used. . . . 1943—Germans begin to round up Jews in Italy, even in Rome near the Vatican. The
    pope is still silent.”



     

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pope-pius-xii-and-the-holocaust

    Politics Behind the Policy

    Historians point out that any support the Pope did give the Jews came after 1942, once U.S. officials told him that the allies wanted total victory, and it became likely that they would get it. Furthering the notion that any intervention by Pius XII was based on practical advantage rather than moral inclination is the fact that in late 1942, Pius XII began to advise the German and Hungarian bishops that it would be to their ultimate political advantage to go on record as speaking out against the massacre of the Jews. (27)







    It's not by misunderstandings on the part of opposers that identify Christians, but rather their fruits. (Matthew 7:20) Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
    No one can deny the facts that it was the Catholic Church in Germany and other popular Churches that proved to be Hitlers henchmen rather than JW's. 

    This post was edited by texasescimo at August 7, 2017 7:46 PM MDT
      August 7, 2017 7:36 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Calling it a biased and slanted opinion is your way of showing a loosing, opposing lack of value, after finding it difficult to confront, or finding a position to argue. 
    Here you go again derailing from the subject matter, rattling the Vatican and Popes. Nothing more to add to the topic, as usual. Go ahead and open up another can, before you finish the first one.
    The Popes and Vatican had nothing to do with Rutherford's letter of ass kissing the Nazis.

    Go on, Tex. Why stop now? This post was edited by antibiotic at August 7, 2017 8:22 PM MDT
      August 7, 2017 8:21 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Funny how your paraphrased interpretation doesn't line up with the context.
    Facts really upset you, sad.

    Oh yes, I forgot, your complaint about photos of your Clergy in bed with Hitler in 1933 continued even after Hitlers full intentions were made clear throughout the holocaust. LOOK AT ACTUAL FACTS THAT SHOW IT WAS YOUR CHURCH THAT SUPPORTED HITLER THROUGHOUT HIS REIGN OF TERROR

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005394
    [...
    Many actions of Jehovah's Witnesses antagonized Nazi authorities. While Witnesses contended that they were apolitical and that their actions were not anti-Nazi, their unwillingness to give the Nazi salute, to join party organizations or to let their children join the Hitler Youth, their refusal to participate in the so-called elections or plebiscites, and their unwillingness to adorn their homes with Nazi flags made them suspect. A special unit of the Gestapo (secret state police) compiled a registry of all persons believed to be Jehovah's Witnesses. ...]


    https://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm
    Adolf Hitler converses with the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, at a New Year’s reception in Berlin. (January 1, 1935)


    The Nazi-like Croatian Ustashi state, set up immediately after the Nazi German invasion of Yugoslavia, was based on fanatical Catholicism. Orthodox Christian Serbs who refused to convert were butchered in their villages, or at the Jasenovac death camp, or thrown into mountain crevaces. Hitler referred to the Ustashi as “Our Nazis.” 1941
    n

    https://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

    n
    Hitler wth Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin, 1935

    On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars."

    (Source: Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

    (see also USHMM)



    Hitler greets Muller the "Bishop of the Reich" and Abbot Schachleitner

    n

    Hitler greets a Catholic Cardinal (Source: USHMM)
    n

    Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute in honor of Hitler.
    Note Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right)

    (Source: USHMM, Photo source: Bayerische Staatsbibliothek [Bavarian State Library])

    n


    Reich Bishop Ludwig Müller, Berlin, 1934

    (Photo source: Gedenkstätte Deutscher Widerstand)


      August 8, 2017 3:01 AM MDT
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  • 492
    Same old bucket of swill.
    No new material to enlighten me with?

    2,720 clergymen were sent to Dachau, including 2,579 Catholic Priests. These are priests, leaders of the church. 1034 died in the camp, 132 were transferred to another camp, and 1240 were still in the camp when it was liberated on April 29, 1945.
    Out of the JW's sent to Dachau, how many were actual leaders of your Kingdom Halls?

    The first clergymen to arrive at Dachau were Polish priests who were sent there in 1939. The Polish priests were arrested for helping the Polish Resistance after Poland had been conquered in only 28 days. Your president of your Society did nothing to resist the Nazis, but kiss their ass with a letter polished with compassion and understanding to what the German state was doing. 

    When the Dachau camp was liberated on April 29, 1945, the largest number of prisoners in the whole Dachau system, including the 123 sub-camps, were classified as political prisoners, who numbered 43,401; the majority of them were Catholic. 

    The Nazis referred to the Jehovah's Witnesses as "volunteer prisoners" because they were free to go anytime they decided to join the Germany Army. They worked as servants in the homes of the SS officers (not viewed as hard labor).

    JW's did NOTHING to resist the Nazis. They protested anti Nazi propaganda according to the president of the WBTS.
      August 8, 2017 5:22 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    Yes, Catholics in Germany killed Catholics from other countries just as they killed Protestants and others from other Countries. Polish priest were not sent there for being Catholic priest, but for being Polish. SS authorities in the concentration camps did not generally record the religious affiliation of a prisoner, with the exception of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Catholics fought on both sides so of course their were Catholics in prisons on both ran by some Catholics on both sides.

    Quote: "The Polish priests were arrested for helping the Polish Resistance" Yup, and if Poland would have been the stronger at the time the German Catholics including priest would have been put in prison in Poland for helping the NAZI's. 

    So sad that Catholics committed atrocities on Catholics.

    https://adarapress.com/2015/05/15/roman-catholic-priests-ran-half-the-concentration-camps-in-croatia/
    Vatican War Crimes | Roman Catholic Priests Ran Half the Nazi Death Camps in Croatia



    Truth be told, Hitler couldn't have pulled off the holocaust without the help of the Churches and Church people. Do you think it was mostly Jehovah's Witnesses and atheist that fought for Hitler?


    https://www.google.com/search?q=pope+apologizes+for+holocaust&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&oq=pope+apologizes+for+holocaust&aqs=chrome..69i57.7807j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Apology and the Holocaust; The Pope's in a Confessional, And Jews ...

    www.nytimes.com/.../apology-and-the-holocaust-the-pope-s-in-a-confessional-and-jews-...
    Nov 30, 1997 - And it is this apology that weighs most heavily on the church. It was first promised in 1987 by the Pope himself in a meeting with American ...

    Pope ends year as he began it -- with apology to Jews - CNN.com

    www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/24/pope.apology/index.html
     
    Dec 24, 2009 - Pope Benedict XVI ended 2009 much as he began it -- with a major gaffe ... He started the year by welcoming a Holocaust-denying bishop back ...

    BBC News | Europe | Vatican apologises over holocaust

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/65889.stm
     
    Mar 16, 1998 - The Catholic Church's apology for sitting on the sidelines while the Nazis ... In his letter accompanying the apology, the Pope said the holocaust ...

    List of apologies made by Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia

    Pope John Paul II made many apologies. During his long reign as Pope, he apologized to Jews ... The inactivity and silence of many Catholics during the Holocaust (16 March 1998). For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in ...


    This post was edited by texasescimo at August 8, 2017 6:03 AM MDT
      August 8, 2017 5:52 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    Quote: [2,720 clergymen were sent to Dachau, including 2,579 Catholic Priests. These are priests, leaders of the church. 1034 died in the camp, 132 were transferred to another camp, and 1240 were still in the camp when it was liberated on April 29, 1945.
    Out of the JW's sent to Dachau, how many were actual leaders of your Kingdom Halls?

    The first clergymen to arrive at Dachau were Polish priests who were sent there in 1939. The Polish priests were arrested for helping the Polish Resistance after Poland had been conquered in only 28 days.]

    JW's in Germany, elder or not, were thrown in to concentration camps. There is no class distinctions among Christians. (Matthew 23:9-12)


    You could also point out the fact that a large number of victims of the Rwandan genocide were Catholic. Just be sure to leave out the minor detail that most perpetrators were also Catholic. 


    https://www.google.com/search?q=pope+apologizes+for+rwanda+genocide&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&oq=pope+apologizes+for+rwand&aqs=chrome.2.0j69i57j0.10781j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Search Results

    Pope apologizes for Catholics' participation in Rwanda genocide

    www.catholicnews.com/.../pope-apologizes-for-catholics-participation-in-rwanda-gen...
     
    Mar 20, 2017 - Pope Francis accepts a gift from Rwandan President Paul Kagame during a private meeting at the Vatican. (CNS photo/Tony Gentile, pool via ...

    Pope Francis asks 'forgiveness' for Rwandan genocide - CNN

    www.cnn.com/2017/03/20/africa/pope-apology-rwanda-genocide/index.html
     
    Mar 20, 2017 - Pope Francis on Monday asked Rwandan President Paul Kagame for ... Church inRwanda apologized for its members' role in the genocide ...

    Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide

    https://www.theguardian.com › World › Pope Francis
     
    Mar 20, 2017 - Pope Francis with the Rwandan president Paul Kagame and his wife ... for the Catholic church's role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide, in which 800,000 ... pope's statement was “a significant change of tone” but not an apology.

    Pope Apologizes for Catholic Church's Role in Rwandan Genocide in ...

    www.newsweek.com/rwandan-genocide-pope-francis-paul-kagame-570964
     
    Mar 20, 2017 - Paul Kagame Pope Francis Rwanda's President Paul Kagame is welcomed by PopeFrancis during a private meeting at the Vatican, March 20.

    Pope apologises for church's role in Rwanda genocide | News | Al ...

    www.aljazeera.com/.../pope-apologises-church-role-rwanda-genocide-170320132113...
     
    Mar 20, 2017 - Pope apologises for church's role in Rwanda genocide ... Rwanda's government indicated it felt the apology did not go far enough, saying the ...





      August 8, 2017 6:27 AM MDT
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  • 492
    You are wrong, Tex.
    On 11 December 1935, Wilhelm Braun, a Catholic theologian from Munich, became the first churchman imprisoned at Dachau. 
    The priests imprisoned in Dachau were there for acting out in an anti Nazi German fashion. The same anti Nazi German fashion, which you brother Rutherford opposed. 
      August 8, 2017 6:52 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    What did I say that was wrong?

    There were some Catholic and Protestant Clergy that spoke out against Hitler, some likely due to a good conscience and some likely for opposing political opinions.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany

    Concentration camps

    From 1935 the authorities began sending hundreds of Jehovah's Witnesses to concentration camps, where they were imprisoned with Communists, Socialists, other political prisoners and union members. In May 1938 they accounted for 12 percent of all prisoners at Buchenwald concentration camp near Weimar; by May 1939 they represented 40 percent of all prisoners at Schloss Lichentenburg



    https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/the-ignominious-way-that-catholic-priests-were-treated-by-the-nazis/
    n

    The main camp, to which the Catholic priests were sent, was the Dachau concentration camp. The first clergymen to arrive at Dachau were Polish priests who were sent there in 1939. The Polish priests had been arrested for helping the Polish Resistance after Poland had been conquered in only 28 days.

    The Catholic priests were not sent to Dachau just because they were priests. Catholics and Protestants alike were arrested as “enemies of the state” but only if they preached against the Nazi government.

    An important policy of the Nazi party in Germany was called Gleichschaltung, a term that was coined in 1933 to mean that all German culture, religious practice, politics, and daily life should conform with Nazi ideology. This policy meant total control of thought, belief, and practice and it was used to systematically eradicate all anti-Nazi elements after Hitler came to power.

    There were around 20 million Catholics and 20,000 priests in Nazi Germany. The vast majority of the German clergymen and the German people, including the 40 million Protestants, went along with Hitler’s ideology and were not persecuted by the Nazis.


    https://www.csmonitor.com/1996/1106/110696.feat.feat.1.html

    The Gestapo shut down the Witnesses' printing presses in 1933 and burned their literature, forcing the Witnesses to go underground with their preaching work. By 1934, the first of 6,000 Witnesses were sent to Nazi prisons and concentration camps. Many children were taken from their parents and sent to Nazi reform schools.
    n
      August 9, 2017 8:17 AM MDT
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  • 492
    What did you say that was wrong?
    You said it again. You don't even pay attention to the Copy/Pasta you recycle.
      August 9, 2017 3:21 PM MDT
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  • 492
    What does the Rwanda genocide have to with the ass kissing letter by Rutherford to the Nazis?

      August 8, 2017 5:28 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    What I said about Rwanda genocide only makes sense in the context of the comments above in which you brought out that some Catholic priest were in concentration camps and I brought out that: "Catholics in Germany killed Catholics from other countries just as they killed Protestants and others from other Countries. Polish priest were not sent there for being Catholic priest, but for being Polish. SS authorities in the concentration camps did not generally record the religious affiliation of a prisoner, with the exception of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Catholics fought on both sides so of course their were Catholics in prisons on both ran by some Catholics on both sides." and "You could also point out the fact that a large number of victims of the Rwandan genocide were Catholic. Just be sure to leave out the minor detail that most perpetrators were also Catholic."

    You seem to try to make it out that Catholics were only victims of WWII and not perpetrators. That is clearly not true.

    n

    Seems a bit hypocritical of you talking about but kissing.
    The Reichskonkordat ("Concordat between the Holy See and the German Reich"
     It was signed on 20 July 1933 by Cardinal Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli, who later became Pope Pius XII, on behalf of Pope Pius XI and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of President Paul von Hindenburg and the German government




    https://www.concordatwatch.eu/kb-1211.834

    Article 16

    Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of loyalty either to the Reich governor of the state (Land) concerned or to the President of the Reich respectively, according to the following formula:

    "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State (Land) of . . . I swear and promise to honour the legally constituted government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honour it. With dutiful concern for the welfare and the interests of the German state, in the performance of the ecclesiastical office entrusted to me, I will endeavour to prevent everything injurious which might threaten it."


    This post was edited by texasescimo at August 9, 2017 9:02 AM MDT
      August 9, 2017 8:22 AM MDT
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  • 492
    Great evidence from both sides that religion a a bad thing.

    “I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong.” 
    ― John Lennon

    “All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry.” 
    ― Edgar Allan Poe


      August 9, 2017 3:38 PM MDT
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